Posts by Eugene Shubert

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

Are there any JWs around here that appreciate my previous post?

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

A wonderful confirmation of what I’ve been trying to say is given by Barclay, W. The Daily Study Bible- The Gospel of John vol.1 III. [Revised Edition ISBN 0-664-21304-9]:

Finally John says that "The Word was God". There is no doubt that this is a difficult saying for us to understand, and it is difficult because Greek, in which John wrote, had a different way of saying things from the way in which English speaks. When the Greek uses a noun it almost always uses the definite article with it. The Greek for God is ‘theos’, and the definite article is ‘ho’. When Greek speaks about God it does not simply say ‘theos’; it says ‘ho theos’. Now, when Greek does not use the definite article with a noun that noun becomes much more like an adjective; it describes the character, the quality of the person. John did not say that the Word was ‘ho theos’; that would have been to say that the Word was identical with God; he says that the Word was ‘theos’ —without the definite article— which means that the Word was, as we might say, of the very same character and quality and essence and being as God. When John said ‘The Word was God’ he was not saying that Jesus is identical with God, he was saying that Jesus is so perfectly the same as God in mind, in heart, in being that in Jesus we perfectly see what God is like.

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. Rev 1:1.

Was the revelation given to Jesus given to John? Yes.

What was the purpose of the revelation given to Jesus? It was to show his servants what must soon take place.

Was omniscience given to John? No.

Could an angel deliver omniscience? Probably not.

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

The second post is my mistake. Please delete.

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

Kenneson,

Jesus compared his relationship to the Father in terms of an intimate human father/son relationship. Communicating, thinking and understanding by analogy is reasonable. I presented a second analogy. Logic is mathematical and so is rank.

Unmistakably, the rational communication of thought demands that the Revelation given to Jesus was given to John. The transmission of this revelation through a chain of command is obvious. Father to Son to an angel to an apostle.

I have stated precisely what the Father possesses that the Son does not.

The Father knows the end from the beginning but the Son only knows all possible futures with perfect comprehension plus all that the Father reveals to Him.

I cited the entire content of the book of Revelation as an example. The introductory title says,

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. Rev 1:1.

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

Kenneson,

Jesus compared his relationship to the Father in terms of an intimate human father/son relationship. Communicating, thinking and understanding by analogy is reasonable. I presented a second analogy. Logic is mathematical and so is rank.

Unmistakably, the rational communication of thought demands that the Revelation given to Jesus was given to John. The transmission of this revelation through a chain of command is obvious. Father to Son to an angel to the apostle.

I have stated precisely what the Father possesses that the Son does not.

The Father knows the end from the beginning but the Son only knows all possible futures with perfect comprehension plus all that the Father reveals to Him.

I cited the entire content of the book of Revelation as an example. The introductory title says,

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. Rev 1:1.

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

Simon,

I know what is ruining the table in my previous message. I copied and pasted the Rev 1:1 quote from a word document and I’m sure that its formatting is interfering with the page table code. If you can edit my last message, try deleting the Rev 1:1 quote. Then, copy the following and then make it a quote.

(It goes last):

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. Rev 1:1.

If that fixes it, please delete this message also.

Thanks.

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

NeonMadman wrote: "However, there are a few deviations in which you do approximate JW teaching. [Only one is listed.] You speak of the Father as "a God above" Jesus."

And that isn’t Biblical?

Depends how you mean it, I guess. As I said before, it's a question of whether you mean that the Father is positionally greater or of a higher nature.

I thought I answered that at my web site, where I recount an unusual event.

I knew from my mathematical training that mathematicians have a whole discipline called set theory where it’s proven that infinities come in different sizes. (The size of an infinite set is a special rank called a cardinal number). I thought that the Father would rank like the set of all sets. (This object is so indescribable that all the rules of logic break down). Jesus could easily be infinite, not equal to the Father, and have an understandable rank like one of the infinite cardinal numbers. I then received an unusually strong flash of insight. The Father knows the end from the beginning but the Son only knows all possible futures with perfect comprehension plus all that the Father reveals to Him. I then remembered Revelation 1:1:

Quote:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John. Rev 1:1.

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

NeonMadman wrote: "However, there are a few deviations in which you do approximate JW teaching. [Only one is listed.] You speak of the Father as "a God above" Jesus."

And that isn’t Biblical?

Jesus said,

"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name." Revelation 3:12.

http://www.everythingimportant.org/Godhead

26

Please tell me it isnt true

by Eugene Shubert in

i have been accused of being too similar to the jehovah's witnesses in my teaching about jesus.

please tell me it isnt true.

if you could contrast my perspective in terms of jw belief and approximate your distance from me, i would sincerely appreciate it.

Eugene Shubert

NeonMadman, what you wrote is a perfect rebuttal to my accusers. Thanks.

Euphemism, You’ve done a great job of highlighting all the JW theology about Jesus that I don’t accept.

SKally, my usenet posts are often at sci.physics.relativity, never at alt.jw.

Next question. This should be a clincher. What would the Watchtower Society do if they learned of a JW teaching other JWs my view of Jesus?

http://www.everythingimportant.org/Godhead